Content note: This episode contains discussion of violence and traumatic incidents. We talk about the often-overlooked trauma experienced by police officers, highlighting the importance of mental health and education in law enforcement. In this episode, Officer Akiba McKinney shares personal experiences and insights on navigating vicarious trauma, the need for community support, and the resources available for officers.
Mariam (00:00)
Police officers have trauma.
Akiba (00:02)
that image of her in the middle of street and her hands were all bloody because she was in it. I remember saying, don't know when this is going to come up, but it's going to come up and it's going to impact me and in which way, I have no idea.
Mariam (00:13)
That's officer Akiba McKinney sharing what most people don't hear about. This is Roll Call, a series of conversations aimed at understanding the realities of working for the second largest police department in the nation. I'm Mariam Sobh and along with Commander Joshua Wallace recently spoke with Akiba McKinney.
Akiba (00:31)
I've been on the job for almost 11 years. I think I hit 11 in September. ⁓ In that short span, I've kind of done some pretty cool things within the department. One thing I appreciate is that how big the department is. It gives you the opportunity to do a lot of different things. In the midst of probably like in the middle of my 11 years, I decided to go back to school and get a master's degree in forensic psychology.
A lot of that was because of the things that I was exposed to on the street. And it helped me kind of understand better the things that I was seeing, the things that I was exposed to, and then things that could help me help the people in the community that I was in.
Mariam (01:14)
Can we ask you a little bit more detail about the things that you've experienced and why you felt like you needed to go learn more about how to deal with it?
Akiba (01:22)
Immediately out of the academy, went to, that was during the time where they kind of put you in different districts for a rotation. ⁓ So I went to Inglewood. ⁓ So I went to the seventh district. Then I believe I went to the sixth district, which is Chatham Gresham. And then I went to, actually what is it, Garfield Park, which is the 11th district. And then I was on foot patrol in the fourth district. so that, opened me up a lot to just how different each neighborhood or different community was. And then when I got assigned, I got assigned to Garfield Park, the 11th district where I spent like the majority of my career. So during that time, I was just exposed to a lot of violence and a lot of trauma and not necessarily knowing how to navigate that space because I started to pick up early on that it wasn't something that Chicago police or me as an officer could arrest your way out of these type of situations. So whether it was, you know, shootings or a violent crime, ⁓ arresting an individual for said crime wasn't going to solve any of the issues that was plaguing those communities because it was a lot deeper than that. And so I was exposed to that early on and realized that if I wanted to truly help and make a difference in that community, I had to educate myself on how to do that. So that's what forced me or encouraged me to go back to school and get my degree in forensic psychology.
Mariam (02:54)
Can you elaborate a little bit on what that is?
Akiba (02:56)
A lot of people kind of confuse that because as soon as I say forensic psychology, they assume that I'm going to be in CSI or do crime scene stuff. it's like, no, forensic is dealing with the forensic population. So it has more focus on the criminal aspect of it, but from a psychological, from a psychology perspective.
Josh (03:15)
Do you see it differently now getting that additional education? Does it help you look at the communities differently?
Akiba (03:23)
absolutely. It helps me look at myself differently. ⁓ It helps me. It puts a lot of things into perspective because a lot of the things that I was exposed to, I couldn't articulate. And I was just I just remember saying, what is happening? What is happening? And I couldn't. And so while I was in school, things started slowly, you know, making more sense to me. And I just remember it felt like everything I was studying at that time was something that I was experiencing or going to soon experience. And so it just kind of helped me along the way.
Mariam (03:54)
Are you okay with sharing maybe something that sticks out to you that you've been able to process and understand the why behind it?
Akiba (04:02)
So one of my closest friends, ⁓ who he still works in 11, him and a couple of other officers would always kind of joke and tease me about how come every time you have somebody, anytime you have somebody that you've arrested, they're always crying. And I said, I'm just listening. And some of them committed pretty heinous crimes or some people you just caught with guns, but it's just a mere conversation and just talking to them about... ⁓ Why do you think that you're invincible? Because your surroundings, like the people who you grew up with, how many are still living? That starts a conversation. And I distinctively remember one kid saying, well, out of the 20 of us, there's about four. And he, at the time, was probably like 15, 15 or 16 year old. And me asking him, did he think that he was untouched?
because it seems to me that everybody around you is getting touched. Why is it that you continue to do the things that you do? Is it because you don't care about your life or you just think that you're untouchable? And anytime I asked them that question, that was just an eye opener, probably not just for them, but for me as well, because some of them do believe that they're not gonna make it to 1821. That's a whole nother conversation. And then the other part of it.
For me, there's this sense of hopelessness ⁓ that helped me police different. ⁓ And then sometimes just understanding that people just need someone to talk to. It could be the most heinous or just unfortunate situation, but as long as you're there to listen, ⁓ then they just start, it's like a system where they're just kind of releasing a lot of the stuff that they go through which was strange for me at first because I'm like, you do see my uniform, right? ⁓ But then for them to be able to see past that and to be just kind of open and talking about not anything that's related to the crime that they've committed, but them as an individual. And it happened from the ages of, guess, 14 all the way up to grown men and women who experienced this level of trauma, repeated trauma.
And then they just felt like they were stuck in a cycle and a series of hopelessness.
Josh (06:32)
you bring up trauma ⁓ and obviously you've experienced enough of that working in the different districts you've worked in. How do you process with the vicarious trauma that you've experienced on the job?
Akiba (06:46)
Ooh, well that's a good question. I think it's different for so many different people. I think for me, because I am sensitive, and I think because also I'm an empath, and so I would take the emotions of them. I would be so drained and exhausted, and not kind of understanding why, and didn't realize again at the time that vicarious trauma is something that I was experiencing. whether it them telling me what they experienced and me watching it and going through it. And so for me, first it was like acknowledging it. And then the other part of it was just, now I have to go talk to somebody about the things that I've witnessed. ⁓ And in addition to talking about it, like what are some of the things that I could do that helps? For me, it was like working out. ⁓ Mostly before work, because that really helps me out. Rather than after, sometimes it would have to be after because sometimes you can't sleep and for me like working out helps, you know, me sleep better. ⁓ So yeah, after me just kind of acknowledging it and then accepting it, because a lot of people don't acknowledge when they're going through things or when things affect them at work. So they do any and everything other than dealing with the issues that they have. So some turn to...you know, substance abuse and some turn to, you know, taking it out on their significant others and their families and some just do things to make their life, their personal lives, much more difficult than it already is, you know, within the job. ⁓ You know, some people just do any and everything but acknowledge what's going on and getting the help that they need. But for me, it was just kind of like acknowledging it and knowing that something was going on and then saying, ⁓
Okay, like you're starting to behave a little differently. You're starting to move a little differently. You need to check that and get that taken care of.
Mariam (08:45)
I think there's a misconception or a stereotype that police officers are immune to feeling these types of feelings like you chose this job because you're superhuman and you can take in whatever is happening and push through.
Akiba (09:01)
I think sometimes, a lot of times, you see that on social media where they think that you are superhuman. You don't have emotions, you don't have feelings, ⁓ which is unfortunate because just because you put on any uniform that doesn't make you any less human. So, especially when you're exposed to something over and over and over again. Like this is your job. Your job is to meet people at their worst. ⁓ And so I just, I think with that or whether you're, you know, you work in the fire department or you work at the hospitals and you're exposed to this type of stuff, it's just a matter of you understanding that one, you have to take care of yourself first. Because if you, you don't take care of yourself, how do you take care of a community if you can't take care of yourself?
Josh (09:50)
And I believe the best thing we can do as partners in law enforcement, as co-workers, is be honest with each other because we're not alone in this. We've all been on this job a certain amount of years and we've experienced a lot of trauma that we may not even realize is trauma. But having the ability to have those conversations with others, letting them know that you're not alone in this goes a long way.
Akiba (10:18)
Sometimes you can see it on other officers' face, and I've seen that quite a few times, where I would just kind of tap them and have a conversation with, and just kind of let them vent. And even for me, there's certain people who know me well, and if I kind of disappear a little bit, they'll call me and be like, okay, it's been four or five days, I haven't heard anything from you. Or just having that group who, you know that saying that says, on your strong friends.
And I feel like the department is full of like those strong friends that no one really checks on because it's like, you're a cop. can handle all that. Not knowing that's what we do day in and day out. ⁓ So you have to have people who are like alert and hyper aware that, yeah, I may be strong, but the fact that I'm going through this on a consistent basis, people need to kind of stop and...know, check on those people who do that. And so it's good when you do have friends who are officers who understand that. ⁓ I've had friends and I do the same who were like, okay, I think you're working too much. Maybe you need to pull back. And you know, and then aside from all that, we have our own personal lives that we got to deal with. So whatever is going on with your family, you're in school, ⁓ all that, relationship issues, all of that on top of having, you know, this type of job. So it's very important and key to have. ⁓people within a department, but also friends outside of the department and family who's going to kind of just hold you accountable.
Mariam (11:55)
How did you choose a job like this?
Akiba (11:57)
I've grown up in community. ⁓ My whole family and the generation before me and before them, we've always been about community and helping out in whatever way that you could. And so for me, I felt like...you know, this was the way I wanted to do it. I was doing it in different ways, but ⁓ I always knew that I wanted to be a homicide detective. ⁓ And then as I started to get involved in certain things within the department, it kind of took me in different ways.
Josh (12:32)
So with your advanced education, do you see more for yourself in the line of that work?
Akiba (12:40)
I would love to kind of focus on or help more with first responders and obviously like with their mental health. So first responders in military, have my family, I have a lot of family members who are in the military ⁓ and also shared the same struggles in terms of PTSD and dealing with all the things that you experience when you go to war. ⁓ So I would definitely love to be more ⁓ helpful in that room. I do do EAP stuff. But then also I think like a couple of my friends have been like they are on me about taking this detective test because they're like the way you connect to people and the way you like care and are like centered and focused on them.
Josh (13:34)
Do you have a end of tour decompression routine that you could possibly share?
Akiba (13:41)
Yeah, was just mostly like my clothes stayed at work. I didn't take any of that home with me. So I would switch clothes, you know, keep everything there. And as soon as I got home, I would shower. It was more like a, you know, get it cleansed. It was like a cleanse. So taking everything off, you know, and drive home. Most of the time I would drive home in silence because when that radio's blaring sometimes you s-like you could still hear it while you're driving, which is the weirdest thing. So sometimes you just need to drive in silence and sometimes you would just sit in your car while you're at home partying just trying to you know get it together and then yeah just kind of go in the house and make sure um yeah shower the day away and then just do whatever it is that I need to do.
Mariam (14:31)
Do you think that the department is doing a lot more with wellness from when you came on the job until now?
Akiba (14:38)
Yeah, I'm actually quite proud of the progress that they've made since the short time that I've been on. Now, even the things that you see on the job. And back then, there was this one particular incident where three people ⁓ were shot. I was being my partner at the time. We were in on an arrest. And then it was during shift change. And so not a lot of people out in dispatch just kept saying, is anybody out there? We have three people shot.
So we asked the guy to watch our arrestee and we went out there. This is one of those situations that I'll never forget. ⁓ Because anytime I drive past that street, I recall everything. Just until now. ⁓ And just remember, as soon as I got on scene, there was this young lady who was shot multiple times in her stomach area. And I think maybe one in her chest and her stomach. And I just remember going to her. ⁓ the ambulance hadn't arrived on scene yet.
And so I'm talking to her, I'm holding her hand, and then she was alert. She was in lot of pain, obviously, but me talking to her, and then the ambulance came and took her first. But then she wanted me to go with her in the ambulance, and then she saw my face, she was like, I understand, I understand why you can't, but I wanted to, but then we had, again, there wasn't a lot of officers on the street. And then not too far from her, there was another gentleman, and I'm pretty sure he didn't make it, he was shot kinda similar to her, but he wasn't alert or anything. And I walk into the middle of the street,
And there was this young, he was probably maybe 21 at most. And he received a gunshot wound to the head and you could see where he ran and just dropped. I think what was troubling about that was that...
You see people shot before and it's gonna impact you differently, but I do remember like, and I don't wanna get too gross, his brain was on a sidewalk. So obviously he didn't make the ambulance comes, they take him away. And then we go back to the station to finish our rest and we probably had maybe four more hours, so we go back out there. So we go back on the street, from two blocks from where that incident happened. I'm looking, I'm like, what has happened? I seen somebody in the middle of the street, they're not moving, they're just kinda sitting there, in the middle of street. So I told my partner to go, and she drive up slow, and I told her stop, and I get out the car, and there's this young girl, she was probably in her early 20s, and I just remember her sitting where the brain was, and she was like not playing in it, but she was patting it and she was so detached and she was just like, ow, I can't even articulate how despondent she was. And so I went and I squat down and I talked to her and she just kept saying, he didn't deserve this, he's a good guy, he's a good guy. And so I picked her up, me and another woman who came outside, who was a resident on the street. We sat her on the sidewalk and we just sat there and I asked her if there was somebody I can call for her. She gave me her phone.
And, but that image of her in the middle of street, like, and her hands were all bloody because she was, she was in it. And I remember saying, I don't know when that's going to come up. Like I said, I said, I don't know when this is going to come up. I was in the car, but it's going to come up and it's going to impact me. And in which way I have no idea, but I know what's going to. ⁓ And that's when I was like, okay, I need to go speak to somebody. There's a lot of different changes that the apartment has done to shift the focus to mental health. And then it also helps when you have bosses who are on that line. Because sometimes when something's first introduced, you have a lot of people who are not on board and will down talk a program and tell you not to trust it or what do need that for. And it makes it comfortable for me, like if I acknowledge if I see an officer struggling, that even if I talk to you one-on-one and you tell me everything's fine, I can then go above and beyond and be like He needs to go to EAP and a sergeant will make that happen.
Josh (18:49)
the Traumatic Stress Incident Program, we have really gone out of our way to ensure that officers understand and know it's just not for officer-involved shootings. Because again, trauma comes in so many shapes and sizes and affects so many officers in different ways. It has been that message to ensure that officers know it's more than just that Definitely applaud the department for getting that message out.
Mariam (19:23)
Well and Commander, is there anything like that you would suggest to people listening to know more about how to get resources or if you know if anything we've talked about today has triggered anyone?
Josh (19:33)
⁓ Absolutely. mean we have EAP, we have several different locations across the city. ⁓ Obviously you have peer support, we have our Traumatic Stress Incident Program, and all personnel should feel ⁓ as if they can approach their supervisors, their leaders, or even their co-workers and say, I'm struggling, I need help.
And I think it's incumbent upon us to recognize that, as these are people that we work with on a daily basis, to see that and pull them to the side and say, hey, is everything OK?
Mariam (20:13)
Akiba, what would your advice be for future officers, people who are just coming on the job or interested in becoming a police officer?
Akiba (20:22)
So our superintendent was my sergeant in the academy. And I remember we were first in there. ⁓ I think it had to be like our first or second week. Anyway, we were like in suits, I believe. And one of the graduating classes, somebody in that class had did something and like, Snellen was pissed. And so right before we were gonna leave, he called all of us into the gym and we were in lean and rest for like maybe 30 minutes. And he was just walking up and down. He threw a fit, like he went off. I was sitting next to one of my closest friends, ⁓ Sergeant Ramos, she works in 7, and she's a goofball. And so we were struggling, and I was like, we just got here, we didn't even do anything, what is happening? And so me and her were laughing at the situation, but we were struggling, like what's going on? But what he said then, like, resonated with me. What you do impacts the other officers. And if we haven't learned that lesson over and over and over again, it's like...based off what an officer does, you know, a thousand miles away, we're all held accountable. ⁓ But I just remember those key things that he said when we were, you know, could barely sit in his position. He was so mad, but I was just like, I go back to that. And it's just kind of like, especially with the who you are. When you get power, it turns people, it could turn people into a monster if you're not comfortable, say for who you are as a person. And then obviously, you know, the accountability thing because what I do will affect you. If an officer goes to another district and because he's not assigned to that district, he goes there and he treats people terribly and then he can go back to his district, those officers who are assigned to that district is going to have to deal with that wrath, not you.
Josh (22:13)
Thank you ⁓ Akiba for joining us today. It's a pleasure to get to know about your background, your history, and what you're doing ⁓ to make things better for you and those around you.
Mariam (22:24)
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