In this episode we speak with Larry Snelling, Superintendent of the Chicago Police Department, as he shares his journey from growing up in Englewood to leading one of the nation's largest police departments. Snelling also discusses the importance of Officer Wellness, strengthening community relationships, and the importance of his strategic plan.
Mariam (00:00)
Some memories are hard to erase.
Larry (00:02)
to this day, when I talk about it, I still get that feeling that runs through my body. I get this feeling of overheating because I can still feel the death of that child 31 years later.
Mariam (00:17)
That's Larry Snelling, Superintendent of the Chicago Police Department. This is Roll Call. I'm Mariam Sobh, and alongside Commander Joshua Wallace, recently spoke with the superintendent about his path to policing and what he sees for the future.
Josh (00:32)
So how does it feel to be the Superintendent?
Larry (00:34)
You know what? I've been asked that question a lot and depending on the day you might get a different answer, but it's always great. The Chicago Police Department same place I've been for 33 years. I love the department. I love ⁓ what we represent ⁓ and the direction the job is going in and I love to watch these Officers out here at work. It's just it's been an amazing thing since I've been a superintendent watching these Officers step up and the work that they're doing out there to keep the city safe. So it feels great to be the superintendent.
Mariam (01:13)
Let's talk about the Democratic National Convention. Were you concerned at all that this was being overhyped and potentially ⁓ maybe giving people ideas to come out and do damage to the city? then, mean, obviously we saw that it was a successful ⁓ event for CPD as a whole, but the language, the conversations that were happening beforehand.
Larry (01:35)
I don't think the Democratic National Convention itself was overhyped. mean, this is an amazing event, large scale. It's going to require a lot of things, a lot of money involved, ⁓ millions of people, ⁓ and those who are also watching and watching the city. But I do believe there's certain aspects ⁓ of what people believe was going to occur was overhyped. And yeah.
A lot of times when there's rhetoric around what's going to happen in the city, you do have naysayers, you do have people who want to see things go wrong. They want that chaos in the city. you know, in this, a leadership position, we have to understand that that's going to be there. What we can't do is fall victim to it. We can't believe in that.
We have to believe in ourselves. We have to believe in our officers. We have to believe in the department and the process. And when you prepare for these things, it doesn't matter who over-hypes what. You're ready for whatever happens.
Josh (02:39)
Is there anything that stands out to you from the DNC that you're particularly proud of?
Larry (02:44)
the Officers and the leadership, just having the leadership out there, boots on the ground with the Officers. It was a demonstration ⁓ from the top that if we're going to ask you to be out there, we're going to do the same. If we're going to give you marching orders, we're going to march with you and we're going to ensure that those marching orders are carried out. But ultimately, the officers are the boots on the ground. They're the ones who have to deal directly with the protesters. They're the ones who have to deal directly with people getting in their faces. They have to keep their cool. ⁓ And then from the leadership part of it, the preparation around making sure that our officers are nourished, that they're hydrated, all of those things that could break a human being down cognitively, and then they start to make mistakes.
We didn't see that out there. These Officers were dedicated. They trained, they showed up every day and their training kicked in. And that says a lot about those Officers and ⁓ their preparedness to go out, do it, their patience and their resilience. So I was just really proud of the members of the department who showed up, stood shoulder to shoulder with their brothers and sisters and protected the city and not only protected the city, but made the department and the city as a whole shy.
Mariam (04:05)
You've created a strategic plan for the entire Chicago Police Department. And what's unique is that you've asked for community input. ⁓ My understanding it's a document that will continue to evolve with feedback. How does this plan impact the people of Chicago?
Larry (04:20)
Well, first of all, the number one focus is on the Officers. That's the number one focus. The reason that that's the number one focus is because we're the Chicago Police Department. If we're going to put Officers out on the street, we need our Officers to be the best, the most well-trained. ⁓ We also need ⁓ those Officers to have the tools. We have to equip them so that whatever we expect them to do that they can go out and do it ⁓ with the right equipment. That being said, when I started out ⁓ saying that every Officer is a community police officer or should be a community police officer, that doesn't mean that every officer is engaging in community policing as you see our community policing ⁓ Officers and the way that they work right now. What it means when I say every ⁓ officer should be a community police officer is just the way that you make contact, with the people, ⁓ who want to see you, those people that you're protecting out there, just having conversations with people, being able to talk to people, being able to relate to people and have them relate to you. One of the things that I've seen is that opening up training to those people who have never done any police work has opened their eyes to what officers are dealing with.
And when we're having these conversations and breaking down barriers, it makes it a lot easier for people to understand what officers are dealing with and going through. If we cut ourselves off from that, ⁓ we have less allies because people don't necessarily understand what it is we're dealing with ⁓ as police officers. That being said, what does it do for the community? You know, it helps build ⁓more of a team atmosphere, right? So we like to say trust all the time, you know as we build community trust community trust What does that actually mean? Right. I would rather say that we're building ⁓ Community teams where we as the police are working with the community in the community working with us We're starting to see that and it's helping us solve crime. It's helping us bring crime down.
It's helping us ⁓catch those people who are out there taking lives, who are shooting, who are robbing. And we've been able to reduce those things because our officers are actively out there engaging with people and we have more people talking to us now. So the strategic plan is generally built around those things. One of the other things we talk about in there is technology and the use of technology to help us get to the bottom of some of these crimes. And there's a lot of work that's being done across every single bureau in this department and everyone is contributing. And this is why we see the reduction in crime that we're seeing right now. And we're starting to see, and I can tell you from sitting in my office, the phone calls I get, ⁓ the emails I get, the text messages I get from community members, from ⁓ business owners, leaders across the city, just the appreciation for the work that the police are doing out there. And so we're seeing it.
We just need to do a little more of it and we'll continue to grow and it keeps our officers safer, it keeps the neighborhood safe.
Josh (07:50)
One of the first foundations in the plan is the focus on police officers and well-being. Why was it so important that that was the first foundation?
Larry (08:00)
Because, you know, again, when we talk about commodities, what's ours as the Chicago Police Department? Ours would be our Officers. That's the most important thing that's going right now, right? We are the Chicago Police Department. And again, I want the most well-best trained officer, physically, mentally, to go out into the field.
One of the things that people don't understand are the things that officers see on a daily basis. And a lot of times we bottle that up. And at the same time, we're trying to balance that with what's going on in our home lives. And for the average person, they don't see the same thing ⁓ during ⁓ the hours that they're working away from home that officers see. ⁓ We see people on their worst days. We're going into people's homes. We're trying to solve their problems.
We're seeing people who are catastrophically injured or even killed and those things sit ⁓ with us and I can just tell you right now for something that happened 31 years ago when I held a dead two year old in my arms to this day when I talk about it, I still get that feeling that runs through my body. I get this, this this feeling of overheating because I can still feel the death of that child 31 years later. And these are things that stick with us. They never go away. We have to learn to manage those things. So we can't have officers unsee the things that they've seen, but what we can do is offer some type of help to help those officers cope with those things that they've seen. The other thing is home life.
How is this affecting an officer when that officer goes home. We also have a job where we know that there are times you're going to be away from your family during holidays, during those moments where, you know, your kid has that first play. You may miss it. And that's something that the average person doesn't necessarily understand. But we need to understand that about our officers and we have, need to make sure that we're doing everything that we can to relieve them of as much stress as we possibly can and let them know that we're there for them.
Mariam (10:26)
It's pretty clear that you're passionate about this job and the men and women who serve this city. Where did this come from?
Larry (10:31)
You know, when I started this job, I started in the second district. And I remember starting in the academy January of 1992, June of 1992, I hit the second district, you know, all of the projects, you know, were standing. And then I got flipped over in 1993, I was flipped over into the seventh district where I, after a brief period in patrol became⁓ joined the tack team over there. And I went through a lot of things, ⁓ you know, there, there were times where you do your job, you go to court and it doesn't turn out the way you expected. And that, that weighs heavily on you because you feel that you're doing the right thing, but sometimes you feel like you don't see justice. ⁓ but then you see the children who have been hurt, injured, the two year old that I mentioned, the elderly people who suffer in the neighborhood. But then the great thing about it were the people that when you showed up on their behalf, ⁓ they were prisoners in their own homes. And when you went over and you gave them some sense of help, the greatest part of that day is when you saw someone peel back the curtains and just, you know, put their hands up thanking you for coming over to help them. And then you realized how important you were to the community.
And that was a community I grew up in. I had seen things growing up. I witnessed my first murder when I was about 16 years old. And knowing that you have the power to literally go out and make someone's day better, relieve someone of some level of stress or fear and get them to a better place and how they're feeling about walking out of their home. ⁓you realize the immense responsibility and power that you have. And I don't know of many other jobs where you could get that feeling, knowing that something that you do every single day could affect someone's life in the most positive way, but also in the most negative way. So focusing on the positive is the most important thing. And ⁓ that's where my passion comes from.
I think if you have a passion for people, you have a passion for life, you want to see people thrive, especially those who are aspiring to be better and to see better, to have better. You want to help those people get there. And I see it in these officers. I want these officers to be better. I want to see them grow. I want to see them get to their destination. It's hard when you've got the number of officers on the job a limited number of positions for them to get to.
But whatever we can do to mentor them to get there, that's my connection, just the human part of it. And I think oftentimes we don't necessarily look at the human aspect of what's going on. And that's in our department and outside of our department. We're all human beings and we all, when you're good people, you're all looking to do the same thing, right? You want to live a decent life, you want to raise your family, you want your children to be successful, and you want everyone to be safe. And if we're all working toward that same goal, we're all in this together. Be it the police or civilian, when we're working together, we'll be stronger because of it.
Mariam (14:14)
Is there anyone who was influential on your career path?
Larry (14:17)
Along this journey, I can't say that there's just one person. There have been people along the way that I've seen work this job. But if I really need to go back, and I mention this all the time, Officer Thomas, before I came on the job, he was my school resource officer. He was a person that we all respected.
He was hardcore, he was tough. He would grab you in the collar and drag you and make sure that you went to class. Nowadays, people would look at that and call him a tyrant. But he was exactly what we needed at the time. And I still respect that man to this day. ⁓ I don't know what Englewood School would have looked like without Officer Thomas, but I know one thing, it was better because he was there.
Those are the examples that I like to follow and I like to think about those things and I do my best to never forget.
Mariam (15:18)
Speaking of Englewood, we hear often about how you grew up in Englewood. That's where you're from. How did that factor into who you are today?
Larry (15:27)
When you grow up a particular way, one of the things that I always say about anyone, especially even those who are taking on this job, we need to develop calluses. And those calluses is where we've been through some level of stress, trauma that has challenged us at some point. It's kind of like, you know, when if you get into, if you're learning how to fight and you're taking boxing lessons, if you're going to get in a ring and fight a real fight, you don't want that to be the first time you were punched in the face, right? You, you actually want to know if you can actually take a punch. And if you spar enough times, you can develop a tolerance for that. ⁓
Don't get me wrong, it's never fun to get punched in the face even after you develop a tolerance, but at least at this point, you know how to deal with it. So growing up in Englewood ⁓ gave me a foundation of, you know, living a tough life, know, single mother, four brothers, ⁓ just kind of living. And we didn't realize how tough it was at that point, because we had nothing else to compare it to.
So I'm not going to sit here and tell you my life was the worst thing that could have happened. No, there was, there were really great people in Inglewood. There were great people back then. We just didn't have a lot. So we worked for everything we got. and it made me understand that if I really wanted something, I'm going to have to work for it. If I want to understand something, I'm going to have to do the research. I'm going to have to put the legwork in and make sure I figured it out.
I never wanted anybody to give me anything. I realized at some point I was capable of going out, making my own way, and growing up like that, developing those calluses, knowing what it feels like every now and again to ⁓ not have much to eat or not have any fancy clothes. Those things became a lot less important than my personal development.
So coming onto this job, looking back at that childhood, that's what keeps me going. ⁓ The material things are not as important as ⁓ developing yourself and developing those around you. So it drives me to be as successful as I can possibly be. And it also drives me to help everyone around me be as successful as they can
Josh (18:22)
How can neighborhoods on the south and west side that are typically associated with having violence, the most violence in the city, that stigma, how can they go about ⁓ getting away from that stigma, rising above it, and how can CBD continue to be part of that positive change?
Larry (18:42)
First of all, personal responsibility. When we look at our neighborhoods, we can't continue, number one, to expect someone else to come in and just fix our neighborhoods. If you're a part of a neighborhood, you have to be part of the solution. We can't just point the finger at someone else and say that, well, we didn't get enough of this or we didn't get enough of that.
What we have to do is learn to stand together, work together, come together for a common cause, recognize what the issues are and what the problems are. Talk about those issues and those problems. People in these neighborhoods are strong enough to do it. They're smart enough to do it. The question is, is there an appetite to do it? And I'm sure there is. I'm sure there's an appetite to get it done. The question now is, how do we get everybody in the same room to work toward that?
As the police, and I've said this before, I'm willing to work with any and everybody in every single community. What we cannot do is make excuses ⁓ for those who are wreaking havoc on our neighborhoods because there are way too many great people ⁓ in those communities to make excuses for those who are trying to destroy this same community. ⁓ I want to see everybody safe I want kids to be able to...you know, walk down the street and not worry about, you know, being attacked, robbed, shot. And in order to do that, community, the people, the real people in those communities who are living in those homes and who are working, tax-paying citizens, because there's another mistake. People believe that everyone on the West Side or the South Side of Chicago are not tax-paying citizens, that they're not hardworking people who want the same thing that everybody else wants.
We have to get to the core of those people, those people in the neighborhoods and what it is they expect, what it is they want. Get them to the table, partner with these people. That's what's going to help us as a whole. We as the police, we go in, as long as we're partnering with those people, as long as we're listening to them and we can offer up whatever help that we can offer up, any way that we can partner, that's going to help us along the way.
Because our numbers become greater. As a police department, our numbers become greater when we know we've got those good citizens on our side. But guess what? Their numbers also become greater. And they can be less afraid because they know we're going to be there for them and we're working as a team.
Mariam (21:29)
If you could choose any profession other than policing, what do you think you'd be doing?
Larry (21:35)
man, that's a good one. You know, that question stumps me right now. And ⁓ it stumps me because, you know, I've been doing this for so long and I really appreciate the job. I love the job so much. The only thing I could think of that comes to mind would be teaching.
Mariam (22:07)
I was just gonna say I could see you as a teacher.
Larry (22:09)
⁓ because anything that I can do to help someone, I would do that. And it's, and when you have a passion for people, especially kids, things that I teach, teaching would probably be the next thing. I mean, there, there are lot of other things, but those are more fantasy type things. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Josh (22:32)
So as Superintendent Snelling, you're going to a district to do a visit and you see PPO Snelling. What are you telling him? It's his first day on the job.
Larry (22:43)
Slow down. I'd tell him to slow down. I'd tell him to read everything that he can. I'd tell him to get as educated as he possibly can. Talk to everyone. Even if you think you may have a problem with them or they have a problem with you, be willing to have a conversation with anyone because you'll learn more that way. Stop and talk to the people in the community. Don't judge. Don't judge. Do not pass judgment on people. Regardless of what they've done at the moment, remember what your job is. When someone commits a crime, even if it's heinous, take them into custody the way that you're supposed to and try not to judge. And the reason that I say that and I harp on that is that at times us we're human beings and when we judge in those moments, ⁓ it leads to an emotional response. And when we have those emotional responses, we can make mistakes. Not only can we make mistakes, but we tend to take that emotion home with us. And it's hard to get it out of your system and those things can make you cynical. And ⁓ it took some soul searching for me to get out of some of those cynical ways.
Because cynicism kills, ⁓ leads to hypertension. ⁓ It creates a situation for officers where ⁓ it can affect their home lives. It can make people dislike you because you don't realize how you're coming off. So ⁓ when you learn to separate those things, and realize what the job is and you keep it there, ⁓ it keeps you better. But lastly, stay away from negativity and negative people. The minute someone starts viewing negativity, rumors, things of that nature, walk away from them. Walk away from them, don't engage. Because negativity is like drugs, right? Oftentimes you have...people who just don't want to get high alone. So they want to drag you into that negativity with them. And the more people they could drag into that negativity, the more allies and negative allies they create. Don't be a follower. Don't be a follower. Research everything. Someone says something to you, do your own personal research. Don't just believe it. If you read something,
Make sure it's a reliable source. And then check and check again, just to make sure that you've got fact-based information. That's the most important thing because those are the things that are going to keep you above board and it's going to keep you steps ahead of those who have gotten lost in negativity.
Mariam (25:58)
That was Larry Snelling, Superintendent of the Chicago Police Department. This is Roll Call, a production of the Bureau of Patrol. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and never miss an episode.